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Poster: cashel Date: Aug 14, 2004 7:12am
Forum: election_2004 Subject: an outsider looks at the USA

As a casual observer and reader of history (from Australia) I feel some optimism regarding USA. I notice an increasing tendency for the USA citizens and media to look inwards.. Most of its dangers seem to come from its own people( apart from 9/11, most terrorism in usa from usa people. I exempt Florida from my discussion as I do not consider to be part of JSA and should be relocated to the Sahara. revision spelling

This post was modified by cashel on 2004-08-14 14:12:41

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Poster: tom w. Date: Aug 14, 2004 2:38pm
Forum: election_2004 Subject: Re: an outsider looks at the USA

"i notice an increasing tendency for usa citizens and media to look inwards"

criticism of america by americans is the premise on which this country was founded. criticism and debate over what affects our lives as americans is fundamental to our political system and happens every day in congress, the media, and our homes.

but serious debate over how our government affects the lives of non-americans is much harder to find. americans are generally uninformed about how our government, which acts on our behalf and is the strongest in the world, influences the political, economic, and social lives of foreigners. example: 98% of turkish citizens oppose the invasion of iraq, but the democratic government supports it. and if a foriegner should criticize our business, our reaction is: see moxey's post here.


"most terrorism in usa is from usa people"

i guess your talking about timothy mcveigh, the unibomber, the kkk, the weatherman collective, and other american terrorists. but terrorism is terrorism and i expect my government to bring justice to the organizers of 9/11 in the same way it was brought to these american terrorists.

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Poster: cashel Date: Aug 14, 2004 2:58pm
Forum: election_2004 Subject: Re: an outsider looks at the USA

America and Australia are now negotiating a "Free Trade Agreement. Australian cititizens will be surrending some of their rights (freedoms) in the the hope that they will get economic benefits(e.g.we will have to bow to your "mickey mouse" copyright provisions.) So I think that Americans should listen to Australians. As to your confidence of usa ability to capture terrorists, I would remind you that the usa Anthrax murderers have not be found. The FBI list of USA hate organisations is interesting reading and they frighten me because their members may visit Australia. revision:::spelling

This post was modified by cashel on 2004-08-14 21:58:36

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Poster: tom w. Date: Aug 15, 2004 2:26am
Forum: election_2004 Subject: Re: an outsider looks at the USA

cashel,

this is a forum. it implies discussion. i AM listening to australians, YOU!

as far as having "confidence in usa ability to capture terrorists" i would remind you that the majority of american terrorists have been caught and prosecuted (mcveigh, unibomber, members of kkk, weatherman collective) as far as the "anthrax murderers", this hardly compares to the terrorism of alqaeda and the aformentioned. do you know how many people have died from anthrax?

justice systems, yours, ours, anyones, are not infallable and often counterproductive but shouldnt be abondoned for not being perfect.

as youve illustrated, terrorist organizations know no boarders and should be seen as a concern for humanity and not this or that nation. my previous post distinguished between the actions of governments and the will of people when it comes to international affairs and foriegn policy. poll americans, or non-americans for that matter, and they will say that the "international community" should have more say in international issues,, e.g. war, trade agreements, poll government officials about the same issue and they will go on with some rhetoric about the need for soveriegnty.

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Poster: cashel Date: Aug 15, 2004 7:17am
Forum: election_2004 Subject: Re: an outsider looks at the USA

TORNW I read your post with interest.Very good, and we are in basic agreement. This forum is much like the "Letters to the Editor " page in the newspaper and also gets interesting opinions.

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Poster: moxey Date: Aug 29, 2004 9:45am
Forum: election_2004 Subject: Re: an outsider looks at the USA

first off i did not mean to insult cashel or his country men in particular.i know the aussies are with us{at least thier prime minister and a portion of thier population}.as is the case with my own country.my apologies if i was misunderstood.i dont mean to insult anyone.you see i lost a childhood friend in the trade towers.my nieghbor who lives two doors down lost his wife{who was pregnant with thier third child}.i am involved personally in this loss.what really angers me is when people accuse my countrymen or the president of being complicite somehow in the mess the world is in.did anyone accuse roosevelt of wrong doing when the japanese attacked? futher more i get disgusted when i hear the iraq war is wrong or illegal.they say iraq had nothing to do with september 11.well....did the germans have anything to do with pearl harbor?maybe our war with them was wrong and illegal too.maybe i should become a socialist like al gore or kerry...not worry about subhuman terrorists who will kill my children and become more sensitive about global warming and evil corporations.. after all the real terrorist resides in the white house...right.yes i will be voting for bush.he kills terrorists...when global warming flys planes into buildings or evil corporations saw the heads off our soldiers....you bet!!!my first phone call will be to wacky al gore and howard dean and ralph{the commie}nader and john{lurch}kerry and......
again no disrespect is meant to anyone on this forum.

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Poster: mbrlr Date: Oct 30, 2004 3:39pm
Forum: election_2004 Subject: Re: an outsider looks at the USA

I believe Hitler quite obligingly declared war on the US after Pearl Harbor; we might otherwise have run into problems declaring war on the Germans had they not done so.

Iraq seems to have had not one single thing to do with 9/11 and yet the United States, our country, invaded and deposed its leader. He was a reprehensible fellow, no doubt, but we used misstatements and half-truths to justify the invasion. Oh, and what about OBL, the fellow that actually masterminded the deaths of 3000 Americans? Oh, nevermind him...but we'll come back to that.

We have few real allies in Iraq. Those we have we've hurt. Is Tony Blair in good shape these days? Rather than showing wisdom and at least a modicum of humility towards our allies and the rest of the world, we've shown pride and a haughty spirit. Remember the bit about destruction and a fall? This explains why we've gone from a position where the entire world was one with us after 9/11 and now is disgusted by us. ...and because the administration was so hot and bothered to invade Iraq, we let OBL get away so he could make pre-election videos. The best argument I've read lately (and I can't recall which columnist, unfortunately) was essentially that we should impeach our current judicially installed warmonger by voting him out of office and attempt to bring some sanity back to Washington. Will we still have to fight on in Iraq and try to bring some level of stability there? Sure, but at least we'd have someone in office who doesn't see himself or the United States as God's chosen one. Hubris is destructive both personally and on a national/international level.

Throw the bums out come next Tuesday.

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Poster: moxey Date: Aug 14, 2004 10:57am
Forum: election_2004 Subject: Re: an outsider looks at the USA

an insiders look at the rest of the world.......
the people of the u.s.a dont care what an outsider{australia} thinks of us.we can do with out shrimps on the barbie and a nut playing with crocidiles.we dont care if some countries are too socialist and have lost thier nerve thru liberalism to fight a common enemy.but dont worry,such countries when they are on thier knees,will somehow forget thier hatred of our prosperity and call our name.and we will come.you see, some of us who DON'T look inside ourselves{but understand that the problems of the world are not caused by the u.s.a but by third world instability} understand that there is a difference between weakness and evil.so therefore we will come to your aid... france etc.....yes,our media and some of our citizens are weak socialists too.but not all.one question cashel.....when they come to cut your throat who will you call? i to am a reader of history.and if you are, then you know that there can be no peace without absolute victory.

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Poster: cashel Date: Aug 14, 2004 12:45pm
Forum: election_2004 Subject: your President called Australia,s leader "man of steel"

You have insulted both nations with your ignorance.President Bush has many times described Australia as "our friend".What nation has troops fighting terrorism in Iraq???(you would NOT know) alongside the Americans???????